| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Scrapyard Bob
EVE University
Ivy League
410
   |
Posted - 2011.11.30 02:30:00 -
[1] - Quote
Alisarina wrote:
The only thing I can see that is really bad about this price hike in taxes is the new players wanting to get into PI or who have just gotten into PI and don't have another reliable source of income, though if they know what they are doing they can skill up fo incursions or higher level missions, still kind of sucks for them however.
Not really. For the new players doing PI harvest in hi-sec, it won't change a thing. Prices will go up for P1, so they'll be able to charge more - and people who find math difficult will abandon the market, making P1 prices higher, which means more money for the PI harvesters at the bottom of the pile.
For new players trying to do lo-sec PI - they'll have to adapt or die. Or join forces and get standings with the residents or move to null/w-space. Or change their setups to produce P2 and survive off of command center launches.
For the factory planets - if it's not profitable to make if you assume that you buy inputs off the market and pay the import/export fees - then don't make that particular commodity. Find another niche rework your factory planets to pull from lower down on the tier. |
Scrapyard Bob
EVE University
Ivy League
410
|
Posted - 2011.11.30 06:16:00 -
[2] - Quote
Nobody knows for sure that the fees will be adjusted. (My guess is that they'll probably never be adjusted.)
What we do know is that it costs (at a 10% CO/POCO) exactly 50 ISK/u to export P1, no matter which type of P1.
And the new players will simply have to learn the primary rule of manufacturing: don't make stuff that isn't profitable to make. We've been prepping the students in our channels for a few weeks now about the upcoming changes to tariffs, including exploring ways to get a competitive edge on others by doing more steps on a single planet. Teaching them how to approach the upcoming change and how to spot opportunities in the turmoil.
(Most PI planets pay off in 1-2 weeks, even for hi-sec P1 harvest planets. As long as you didn't just setup your PI planet in lo-sec yesterday, there's no chance of losing your initial seed capital that you spent in setting up the PI planet. Picking up and moving to another system is a temporary setback, not a permanent death.) |
Scrapyard Bob
EVE University
Ivy League
410
|
Posted - 2011.11.30 06:20:00 -
[3] - Quote
Nekopyat wrote:
And let us not forget that this will probably reduce or wipe out factory planets in high sec, while not a horrible thing decreases the variety of types, which is sad.
Actually, I think it will be the other way around. No sane individual is going to setup a PI factory planet in an area where they have no control over the tariff (such as lo-sec). In lo-sec, they might pay 0%, they might pay 10% (equal to hi-sec), or if the owner of the POCO gets in a mood, they may suddenly have to pay 100% tariff rates.
Which means that the vast majority of factory planets are going to be done in hi-sec, where you *know* that the tariff will always be 10% setting and you can make your profit estimates accordingly.
(The ability of a POCO owner to charge 10x more then what hi-sec charges in fees is where the POCO concept falls flat. Yes, it will drive player interaction and probably PvP. But it means that a PI factory planet owner has to deal with way too much risk and won't be able to plan their costs. CCP may eventually have to limit the POCOs to charging no more then 30% tariff.) |
Scrapyard Bob
EVE University
Ivy League
411
|
Posted - 2011.11.30 13:55:00 -
[4] - Quote
Nevryn Takis wrote:The macro economic effects of this are ridiculous
Effectively CCP doubled the costs of running a POS - no matter where it is or what it's doing.
Eh, I call bull-pockey on your numbers. Show your work.
Oct 19th fuel prices (millions of ISK per 30 days):
Amarr: 151 / 231 / 392
Caldari: 158 / 245 / 421
Gallente: 190 / 310 / 549
Minmatar: 174 / 276 / 482
Nov 7th prices:
Amarr: 136 / 213 / 366
Caldari: 140 / 220 / 381
Gallente: 176 / 291 / 523
Minmatar: 139 / 217 / 375
Estimated costs after the new fuel pellets arrive, using the following target prices:
11300 - Coolant
12400 - Enriched Uranium
12200 - Mechanical Parts
400 - Oxygen
90000 - Robotics
2750 - Charters
130 - Heavy Water
500 - Isotope price
420 - Liquid Ozone
Which gives prices of: 105 / 207 / 412 (S/M/L per 30 days)
If isotope prices go back up to 600 ISK/u, then: 112 / 221 / 441 |
Scrapyard Bob
EVE University
Ivy League
412
|
Posted - 2011.11.30 19:15:00 -
[5] - Quote
Old tariffs vs new tariffs (as a percentage of the market price of the item).
P0 paid 0.10 ISK/u on products worth 1.50-3.50 (about 2.8% to 6.67%)
P1 paid 0.76 ISK/u on products worth 200-800 (anywhere from 0.095% to 0.38%)
P2 paid 9.00 ISK/u on stuff worth 6k-10k (about 0.09% to 0.15%)
P3 paid 600 ISK/u on stuff worth 35k to 70k (0.86% to 1.7%)
P4 paid 100000 ISK on stuff worth 500k to 1200k (8.3% to 20%)
Under today's prices and the new CONCORD tariffs:
P0 - 10% to 20% effective rate
P1 - 6.7% to 33%
P2 - 7.5% to 17%
P3 - 6% to 11%
P4 - 6% to 12%
Under the old system, the tariffs on P1/P2 were a joke compared to the other tiers. So everyone got lazy and stopped including those tariffs in their import/export calculations. Even the P3 tariffs were a bit of a joke. From a point of consistency, the new tariffs make a lot more sense across the P1-P4 tiers. As the cheaper P1/P2 products rise a bit in value, you'll see 6-12% tariffs across all of the tiers.
Now you have to pay attention to the tariffs and decide how many steps you want to do on a single planet. The more effort you put in (and the more tiers that you can skip), the better positioned you will be to make a profit at a price point below what your competitor (who is stuck in the old mindset) can survive at. |
Scrapyard Bob
EVE University
Ivy League
427
|
Posted - 2011.12.02 00:00:00 -
[6] - Quote
Cygnet Lythanea wrote:
Oh, and the PI in low sec isn't that great.
I've got fifteen worlds on a couple alts and I make about 300k average profit (not net, profit) per world per day, in low sec.
If you're only making 300k average per day per world, then you're doing it wrong. Especially in lo-sec.
Hi-sec PI harvest planets, with daily or every other day resets of the ECUs, can easily make 800-1200k ISK/day (average price during October / early November) for each planet. Even after paying 50 ISK/u for export tariffs to take the goods to market. And that's with only Command Center Upgrades IV (not V).
1-2 ECUs, 2-4 BIFs, 1 LP is the standard setup. Move your ECUs no more often then once a week to save a bit of ISK, never move the LP/BIFs (maybe once every 3-6 months).
P2 factory world (3 LPs 18 AIFs) that takes P1 from the market and makes P2. Makes 2-3M ISK per day, even post-tariff.
|
| |
|